Episode 107 with Dr. Benjamin Gilmer, Tireless and Compassionate Advocate for Carceral and Mental Health Reform and Author of The Other Dr. Gilmer: Two Men, a Murder, and an Unlikely Fight for Justice

Episode 107 Notes and Links to Dr. Benjamin Gilmer’s Work 

 

    On this episode of The Chills at Will Podcast, Pete welcomes Dr. Benjamin Gilmer, and the two discuss, among other topics, Dr.’s early days at the rural Mountain Area Health Education Center, his directly following Dr. Vince Gilmer, and the ways in which Dr. Benjamin Gilmer got to know Dr. Vince’s story and generous medical work, and then Dr. Vince himself. The conversation includes discussion of the newly-released book, the neurological disease that Dr. Vince discovered he had, and the specific implications for his case and society’s understanding and treatment of mental health’s connection to incarceration.   

    Dr. Benjamin Gilmer is a family physician and Associate Professor at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine and Mountain Area Health Education Center’s (MAHEC) Family Medicine Residency Program.  He is an international Albert Schweitzer Fellow and attended Davidson College followed by medical studies at the Sorbonne in Paris, France and East Carolina University. As the Medical Director for MAHEC’s Rural Health Initiative and Rural Fellowship, he is passionate about advocating for global and rural health disparities. He has worked extensively in Central and South America and West Africa. Benjamin is committed to advancing medical education, point of care ultrasound, interprofessional collaboration and inspiring students to pursue rural health. 

    His advocacy work currently focuses on bringing media attention to the social injustice of mass incarceration. His book, The Other Dr. Gilmer (Ballantine/Penguin Random House) and feature film project (Concordia Films) both highlight the injustice of mass incarceration of people with mental illness. The book is out as of March 1! Both projects are based on a 2013 This American Life podcast (Dr. Gilmer and Mr. Hyde), a collaboration between Benjamin and Sarah Koenig (“Serial”) which has had more than 10 million listeners. A former neurobiologist turned rural family doctor, Dr. Gilmer has lectured across the country about medical ethics, global and rural health, bias in medicine, and the intersection of medicine and social justice. He lives with his wife, Deirdre, two children, Kai and Luya, and their dog Prince Peanut Butter in Asheville, North Carolina.

 

Buy The Other Dr. Gilmer 

 

Penguin Random House Page for The Other Dr. Gilmer

Dr. Benjamin Gilmer's Website

 

Hollywood Reporter Article about Movie Adaption of The Other Dr. Gilmer

 

The legendary This American Life episode, “Dr. Gilmer and Mr. Hyde” (10+ million downloads to date!)

 

At about 3:10, Dr. Gilmer responds to Pete’s questions about his parents’ and family influences on intellectual curiosity 

 

At about 4:30, Pete asks Dr. Gilmer about early reading experiences and childhood exploration 

 

At about 6:20, Dr. Gilmer describes the outsized impact of Dr. Albert Schweitzer and speaks of some of his own work in Gabon; Pete and Dr. Guilmer also speak of the late, great Dr. Paul Farmer

 

At about 8:50, Pete and Dr. Gilmer talk about corporatization/for-profit medicine, and Dr. Gilmer talks about service-oriented medicine as experienced in Gabon; he also discusses a symbolic anecdote of the “throne” being shared by a town leader in Gabon 

 

At about 13:20, Dr. Benjamin talks about his time-his “baptism in medicine”-at Broughton Hospital as an instructive and inspiring time

 

At about 15:25, Pete and Dr. Benjamin discuss the ACE testing and tests for gauging sociopathy

 

At about 16:45, Pete references Ira Glass’ understated, stunning beginning of the legendary This American Life episode, “Dr. Gilmer and Mr. Hyde”

 

At about 17:30, Dr. Gilmer talks about starting work at the clinic (MAHEC Family Health Center at Cane Creek)  as an “outsider” and almost not being hired due to the fact that his name was the same as his imprisoned predecessor 

 

At about 19:25, Pete and Dr. Gilmer reference a humorous and inauspicious anecdote about suspicions of modern medicine that is told in the book

 

At about 21:15, Dr. Gilmer gives some background on Fletcher, NC, where the clinic is located

 

At about 22:40, Dr. Gilmer discusses the clinic’s patients’ views and stories of Dr. Vince Gilmer’s generosity and kindness, including an allegorical incident involving caring for mice, and how these stories being in opposition to the crimes that Dr. Vince committed, and how Dr. Benjamin was inspired “to look further” into 

 

At about 25:10, Dr. Benjamin recounts a story of a patient shaking him up and making him “paranoid” about Dr. Vince seeing him as a “usurper”

 

At about 28:55, Dr. Benjamin talks about Tommy, a recipient of generosity from Dr. Vince, and how Dr. Vince’s traumatic childhood and evolving disease led to “effusive generosity”

 

At about 31:00, Dr. Benjamin highlights Woody Guthrie’s experience with a similar disease 

 

At about 32:40, Dr. Benjamin and Pete discuss the parts of the book where the doctor had done research into the specifics of Dr. Vince’s crime, and the delusion that led to baffling and strange actions in the immediate aftermath of the murder; Dr. Benjamin also cites the brain “as a character” in the book and how Dr. Vince’s background of abuse served as a trigger

 

At about 35:40, Dr. Benjamin talks about sensitizing readers/listeners to the fallibility of the brain and how we all share mental health imbalances/struggles

 

At about 38:00, Dr. Benjamin talks about the “coin toss” of brian health and his connection to Dr. Vince

 

At about 40:00, the two discuss the precedent in the legal world for SSRI-related crimes, and Dr. Benjamin talks about his initial “no” to inquiries from Sarah Koenig re: doing an episode for “This American Life”

 

At about 42:20, Dr. Benjamin drops some “WOAH!” information about the connection between his NPR episode and the legendary “Serial”  

 

At about 42:50, the two discuss some early interviews that Dr. Benjamin and Sarah Koenig did with local residents and law enforcement after Dr. Vince’s crime

 

At about 43:50, Dr. Benjamin talks about “preconceptions” and their impact in the Dr. Vince case and in society in general; he also talks about how he hopes the book allows more room for 

 

At about 45:25, Dr. Benjamin describes his first meeting with Dr. Vince and how his own doubts and biases came into play

 

At about 49:00, Dr. Benjamin recounts the “farcical” nature of Dr. Vince’s court case 

 

At about 51:20, Dr. Benjamin talks about Dr. Vince’s court case as representative of problems with the country’s carceral, legal, and medical systems

 

At about 52:40, Pete cites an example from the This American Life episode of questions asked by Dr. Vince backfiring spectacularly at trial

 

At about 53:20, the two discuss intergenerational abuse and its cycles, particularly with regards to sexual and physical violence done to Dr. Vince and his sister 

 

At about 54:00, Pete and Dr. Benjamin muse on culpability with regards to Dalton Gilmer, Dr. Vince’s father

 

At about 56:45, Dr. Benjamin reflects on ideas of “reverence for life,” a philosophy of looking at victims and victimizers 

 

At about 58:50, Dr. Benjamin and Pete give some staggering statistics about the connections between prisoners and mental health

 

At about 59:45, Dr. Benjamin highlights the heroic contributions of Dr. Steve and Dr. Colin Angliker in small and big ways

 

At about 1:01:20, Dr. Benjamin answers Pete’s question about what brought a sense of calm to Dr. Vince, even when receiving word of his degenerative health condition

 

At about 1:03:10, Dr. Benjamin talks about Dr. Vince’s disease as not “the whole picture,” but just part of a larger mental health puzzle

 

At about 1:03:55, Pete and Dr. talk about the Gilmer family expanding to include Dr. Vince

 

At about 1:04:40, Dr. Benjamin shares his hopes about what the book can do, has done, and will do

 

At about 1:07:20, Dr. Benjamin talks about reframing the ways in which we treat prisoners

 

At about 1:08:25, Pete discusses the changes that have come through reading this book

 

At about 1:09:20, Dr. Benjamin responds to Pete’s question about how to get involved in similar advocacy groups, and he talks about ways in which people can help in big and small ways and in learning about incredible organizations like Bryan Stevenson’s Equal Justice Initiative, The Innocence Project, Marshall’s Project  

 

At about 1:11:20, Dr. Benjamin and Pete talk about where to buy the book and the early roll-out of the book; Malaprop’s in Asheville is shouted out as a great bookstore to buy The Other Dr. Gilmer

 

At about 1:11:50, Dr. Benjamin talks about the collaboration with Jennifer Fox and Concordia with Dr. writing the book and Jennifer writing the upcoming film

 

    You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow me on IG, where I’m @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where I’m @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both my YouTube Channel and my podcast while you’re checking out this episode. 

This is a passion project of mine, a DIY operation, and I’d love for your help in promoting what I’m convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.

The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.

    Please tune in for Episode 108 with Navdeep Singh Dhillon, the author of Sunny G’s Series of Rash Decisions, an adjunct professor of creative writing and English at Borough of Manhattan Community College, and co-founder of IshqInABackpack (Ish-k), a narrative travel blog. The episode will air on March 8.